#280752 - 08/03/08 10:58 AM
Re: Precise Practice Routine
[Re: 1poolfan]
|
Rail Rat
member
Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 196
Loc: vancouver canada
|
I like your persistence so I will explain it another way.
Confidence is just a word. All words are in the analytical part of the mind. Skill does come from the analytical part of the mind, so you can say any words in your analytical mind you want, it will have no affect on your skill. Your skill should speak for itself. Anything else is just trying to fool that part of the mind where skill lies, and you can’t do that.
I know this is a hard idea to let go because we have been hearing it over and over our entire lives. But I also use the guideline that any theory I hear, even my own, must be able to stand up under scrutiny. So I don’t mind the hard questions at all.
Here is another example; why do you think most amateur’s pool players hit the CB too hard? It is because the mind cannot be fooled and it knows that it does not have the ‘skill’ required so it attempts to use power to compensate for it. Adding power is ‘easy’ to do because the mind had been trained on how to add power and can easily do that.
You say confidence is just a word, but I must remind you that everthing you say is just words.
If we look at reality... the reality of some one who has the real confidence to back up real skill based on real knowledge aquired from real play, then theses words have meaning. Of course you can't tell your brain to do something it has'nt been trained, or has'nt the inate talent to do, I 'm searching for your point here?
As a beginner I shot to hard, as an experienced player I rely on knowledge to shoot proper, thus I have the confidence to execute it. There is no gray area here other than anxiety which we learn as experienced players to control. I do it by channeling tension away from my arm. If I fail its because I just missed the shot!
Daring and analytical thinking have no place when you are down on the shot. If the shot is too daring, make a good safety. If you have to analyse it when you are in your stroke, you're dead.
I'll give you another analogy, I used to be a springboard diver when I was young. When you are standing on the board preparing, you go over the dive in your mind and picture what you are going to do. Then when you are readdy you begin your steps forward. At this point you are commited.... there is no turning back! Your body has taken over now and your brain has only one task to perform... confidence! The confidence to know that you can execute and not blow it.
Edited by Rail Rat (08/03/08 11:25 AM)
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#280753 - 08/03/08 11:32 AM
Re: Precise Practice Routine
[Re: Rail Rat]
|
JoeW
addict
Registered: 03/23/07
Posts: 431
Loc: Leesburg, FL
|
Hey Rail Rat, I was a spring board diver too in my youth, one meter and three meter. Later I moved to high diving. When you have the "skill" it is all about confidence.
If you think confidence has nothing to do with ability try walking a balance beam that is six inches off the floor versus one that is four feet off the floor. Now do a back flip. Many females have the skill, few have the confidence.
The topic that you guys want to research is now called "self efficacy" in the psychological literature.
BTW, I tried Spiderman's two ball combinations and find that I really like the concentration it requires. Another of the appealing features is the ability to set up progressive shots ala Bob Jewett's suggestions for practice / training.
Not to fan the flames but I did build my combination making confidence with Spiderman's suggestion ! :-)
Edited by JoeW (08/03/08 11:44 AM)
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#280754 - 08/03/08 12:13 PM
Re: Precise Practice Routine
[Re: JoeW]
|
Rail Rat
member
Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 196
Loc: vancouver canada
|
Hi Joe. Yes I loved the 3 meter, but the one dive that was my bain was the gaynor, I never really mastered it, I think its because I was very tall, but nobody told that to Luganis!...
When anyone climbs up to the high dive platform they better have lots of confidence and skill or they are going to get hurt.
You've been holding back your big guns Joe. When it comes to discussing the mind you are way above our league, we should study some of the topics you reccommend. brad
Edited by Rail Rat (08/03/08 12:38 PM)
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#280755 - 08/03/08 01:16 PM
Re: Precise Practice Routine
[Re: Rail Rat]
|
1poolfan
newbie
Registered: 07/17/08
Posts: 32
|
You say confidence is just a word, but I must remind you that everything you say is just words.
What you say about words is exactly correct, except that the words I have written give you an exact routine that will allow you to change your skill. That is why just reading about this is not enough; you must ‘do’ the words to see the change. If anyone just thinks they can read this and their skill will improve is wrong. That is why knowledge does not have any affect on a person’s ability to 'execute' a shot. Otherwise anyone could just read or hear the words and be able to do it. But as we all know, it doesn't work that way.
As a beginner I shot to hard, as an experienced player I rely on knowledge to shoot proper, thus I have the confidence to execute it. There is no gray area here other than anxiety which we learn as experienced players to control. I do it by channeling tension away from my arm. If I fail its because I just missed the shot!
You may use knowledge to 'select' the proper shot, you may use knowledge to determine 'the speed' of the shot, but you do not use knowledge to 'execute' the shot.
You don't 'channel' anything when you are 'executing' a shot. I am sorry, but that is just more misunderstood information that has been floating around for a long time. If you can, tell me how I can exactly measure it? The answer is; you can't. There is no way to measure it, so there is no way to prove or disprove what you have said.
Daring and analytical thinking have no place when you are down on the shot. If the shot is too daring, make a good safety. If you have to analyse it when you are in your stroke, you're dead.
Daring would be if you and your opponent are equal in skill and you must do something to gain a slight advantage. You may need to go for a more difficult shot. You could choose to play a safe but you decide not. You don't analyze anything while you are down on the shot, that would be silly. But you do analyze the table as part of your routine and you may see a way out, much like a chess match is done.
I'll give you another analogy, I used to be a springboard diver when I was young. When you are standing on the board preparing, you go over the dive in your mind and picture what you are going to do. Then when you are readdy you begin your steps forward. At this point you are commited.... there is no turning back! Your body has taken over now and your brain has only one task to perform... confidence! The confidence to know that you can execute and not blow it.
Many of us have stories we could tell to illustrate a concept, but you need to realize that what you may be doing is misinterpreting what really happened. The same thing could be said about what I have written except for one thing. If you do the routine, you will see the change for yourself. I don’t believe in just telling people something, I have tested out everything I have said many times.
For any ‘theory’ to hold water, it must work under all circumstance, by anyone who tries it. Just because ‘you’ tried something and it may work for you doesn’t mean much. If what you use can be repeated in anyone who tries it, then I would say you have something there. Most of the information out there today is based on this same hit and miss approach. I don’t work that way.
One other piece of information I would like to pass along. How many times have we all heard ‘Your game will get worse before it gets better’?
The answer is most of us at some point in any sport. I now understand the reason this happens. It is because we are treating the symptom instead of the real problem.
To better illustrate this, supposed you went to a doctor because you were sick. If the doctor said; ‘I will make you sicker before you get better’, what would you think?
One thought would be; ‘Are you crazy!’ But when we hear this concerning improving a sport, we accept it.
I now know that the routine I describe above, and others I have discovered, will start improving your game now. Your game will not get worse because you are working on improving the problem, not just changing the symptom.
Maybe the next time someone tells you ‘Your game will get worse before it gets better’, you will think of this and run, not walk away.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#280758 - 08/03/08 05:30 PM
Re: Precise Practice Routine
[Re: 1poolfan]
|
Rail Rat
member
Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 196
Loc: vancouver canada
|
Well as I said before I would not say your exercise is not a good concept for anyone else, I just mentioned that routines don't seem to work for me.
I don't wish to spend the time to study it and try it out so I cannot accurately argue it with you. So I will leave it at that, and if your routine proves to be of use then that's great.
I wish you good luck on your endeavor. brad
Edited by Rail Rat (08/03/08 05:35 PM)
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#280802 - 08/04/08 10:50 AM
Re: Precise Practice Routine
[Re: Rail Rat]
|
1poolfan
newbie
Registered: 07/17/08
Posts: 32
|
Well as I said before I would not say your exercise is not a good concept for anyone else, I just mentioned that routines don't seem to work for me.
I don't wish to spend the time to study it and try it out so I cannot accurately argue it with you. So I will leave it at that, and if your routine proves to be of use then that's great.
I wish you good luck on your endeavor. brad
I can tell you are an honorable person by your last post.
I think many others will also not try it because they have not been successful in the past with routines. This routine is different because everything about it has been designed to produce a specific result. There will probably be many others who will try it for a few days and give up because it is simple in nature but hard to do in practice. Then others will modify it and say it didn’t work.
The routine must be followed exactly because every detail is there for a purpose. Unless a person understands the reason behind it, any changes to it will not likely to be successful.
I appreciate your critical critique because any theory should be able to stand up to any questions. This one does exactly that because not only have I already asked these same questions, I have had others look it also. Some of my other friends have much better critical thinking skills than I do. It works where other routines have failed for very specific reasons. To list all of the reasons here would fill a book.
My hope is that anyone, whether you are a league player or a professional, will use this simple routine to improve their game.
Many people wonder how long it will take. The answer has always been around a month, but that doesn’t tell the whole story. I have found it takes around 100 hours to form a different skill, if you did it exactly the same way all the time. But since we play pool and actually reinforce old skills, the time is extended. I have used this routine for some time and it continually increases my skill level. I pay more attention to every detail about it now, than I did when I first started. It will start to make improvements in anyone’s game within a very short time. The more you do it, the more it improves your skill.
I hope everyone enjoys this and improves their game with it.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#280970 - 08/06/08 05:39 AM
Re: Precise Practice Routine
[Re: 1poolfan]
|
JJFSTAR
enthusiast
Registered: 02/15/08
Posts: 201
Loc: Pittsburgh PA
|
1poolfan let me try to explain confidence and what I mean by it. It may be that you think that by having confidence I mean that I am saying to myself “have confidence” well I am not. That would be detrimental because it would be inner dialog that would be of a non-task related issue. Confidence is a word sure but it is a word that expresses a state of mind. It is not a word like right, left, up, smooth or thick. It is a word like happy, sad, angry or doubtful.
Confidence is what allows us to perform to our maximum potential. It does not matter what we are doing if we are to be successful we must be brave and have confidence. If we are scared and doubtful we do not perform to our maximum potential.
From mountain climber to tight rope walker to heavyweight champion to chess player to pool player to figure skater, ballet dancer or Olympic gymnast all must have confidence. When they don’t that is when they fail. Did you ever see Rocky III?
I will just take one example because in the above paragraph to explain any more than one would be overly verbose. The reason a tight rope walker can perform without a net is confidence they are 100% confident that they will get to the other platform. They have mastered this to the point that they are able to keep 100% of their focus on task issues for the entire journey.
The biggest part of the reason your practice routine works for you is that it has over time built your confidence; it has given you the ability to focus exclusively on task related issues and therefore has improved your game. In other words you have an unshakeable confidence in it and that is great.
There are lots of practice routines that help us out and I have great faith in them and that is why at some point I will try yours however; if there were someone out there that had absolutely no confidence that this routine would do anything for their game the affect that it would have would be greatly diminished. Sure it would have some just because drills of any type in a controlled environment teach us something. But it would not have the same affect that you have experienced.
Gaining confidence cannot be done by saying to yourself anything else other than things that are “task relevant”. In fact having inner dialog in the form of words may not even be the best way to think; visualization of images may be a far more effective thought process than saying any words to yourself because images are worth to make a cliché “a thousand words”. But the jury is still out on that one I think.
And as a side note I think that beginners hit the ball at 90mph because they just don’t have any understanding of the physics behind the game I have been teaching competition pool for a little over 15 years and I can break a beginner of that whack in one session within 20 minutes. It does matter what you tell them you can’t say “don’t hit the ball so hard” you have to explain the underlying physics to them and THEN tell them “so that’s why you shouldn’t hit the ball so hard” so now you know how to break a beginner of that faster.
_________________________
Pool isn't a game it's a lifestyle
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#280995 - 08/06/08 09:12 AM
Re: Precise Practice Routine
[Re: JJFSTAR]
|
1poolfan
newbie
Registered: 07/17/08
Posts: 32
|
JJFSTAR I would like to politely disagree with most of what you said for these reasons. There has been and continues to be this aurora of mystic surrounding people who excel at things, especially sports. It appears that only a few among us can really reach the goal of mastering our chosen sport. But even the masters often fail to shine and most outcomes are determined by one player making numerous errors instead using their analytical thinking to find and execute brilliant maneuvers.
You indicate the routine I described may work for me because I have confidence in it. I will tell you the difference in this routine and others by using an example. You can put a stop sign up for a road and tell people to stop. Some will and others may not, especially if there are no consequences for the action. If you really want people to stop you could put up a road block that is impassable. The routine I have describes does exactly that. It puts up a physical road block that makes it impossible to make the errors I described in the original post. Therefore by default it works.
You may have been teaching for a number of years but the methods of teaching have been going on for a lot longer and the players have generally not gotten any better. I think this is because of the methods and the understanding of ‘how’ we actually learn has not progessed. We have moved to this area that cannot be measured and probably does not exist. And we invented words to call this mysterious place, ‘confidence, will to win, inner energy’ and on an on. None of which can be measured nor proven.
We have a choice. We can continue with the same methods and the same results or we can try something new and see what happens. If you want to continue with the same methods and results, then I wish you luck. I agree with Aristotle that the definition of insanity is ‘doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results’.
Your other comment that you could cure someone of hitting too hard in 20 minutes I would challenge you to, here is why. You may be able to get anyone to change in seconds or minutes but the habit they have developed of hitting hard will return, guaranteed.
Why? Because what you are doing is having them use their analytical mind to control the stroke at that point in time. This may work for a few minutes but the habit has not changed. Habits take a certain amount of time to change, if done exactly the changed way. If you intermix a change to a habit and the old habit, it takes even longer.
The reason this works is that ‘habits’ use a different method of construction. They use what I call a ‘neural’ method. This means the formed habit has a direct ‘formed’ link to the action it has learned. There are three ways to change these formed links.
The quickest is pain. Injure part of your body and you will instantly not use it, think of a sprained ankle. Even though you have been using it all you life, you can instantly not use it. The second is pleasure. This is where most of our bad habits come from, smoking, drugs, gambling. Pleasure can form an almost instant habit.
The last method is learning. This is where most of us learn every skill we have. From walking on the ground to walking a tight rope. All of us have the ability to learn any skill we want, unless a person is physically not able to do it.
All habits are in a part of the mind that the analytical mind does not have access to, and for good reason.
The reason I wrote all of this is to try and show you there is no room in here for things like confidence, will to win, or inner energy. It just doesn’t exist.
I don’t have what you call confidence in this routine. I don’t need it nor do I need confidence to know that the sun will come up in the morning. It will happen whether I have confidence or not. The same is for the routine I described. Just by going through the motions I described, it will happen whether you want it to or not. So how would you like to tell one of your students that you have a routine that will improve their game whether they believe in it or not? How would you like to have other routines that ‘force’ a student to improve by changing their habits instead of telling them they lack ‘confidence’? I would suggest that your value as a teacher would be greatly enhanced.
Sorry to be so long winded, but I didn’t see any other way.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#281005 - 08/06/08 10:18 AM
Re: Precise Practice Routine
[Re: 1poolfan]
|
JJFSTAR
enthusiast
Registered: 02/15/08
Posts: 201
Loc: Pittsburgh PA
|
1poolfan you are free to disagree and I do not look down on you for doing so. However all that I have said is that beings (meaning not just humans) perform tasks optimally when they are in a state of decisiveness and confidence. And in contrast perform poorly when they have doubt and indecision. Comparing that to the sun coming up is IMHO a little silly. You can go to the discovery channel or ESPN2 for proof. It is just a reality of life.
_________________________
Pool isn't a game it's a lifestyle
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#281014 - 08/06/08 11:00 AM
Re: Precise Practice Routine
[Re: JJFSTAR]
|
1poolfan
newbie
Registered: 07/17/08
Posts: 32
|
The comparison to the sun may have been a bit too much but the point was to disassociate the action with the word.
It’s funny you mention animals. I interact with 40 to 60 animals every single day and have been for many years. Many of the ideas I have expressed come from observing or training animals, both domestic and wild. To assign human words like ‘confidence’ to an animal is funny to me. Animals act only out of survival, which not to say humans don’t also. Animals will almost never change their habits even if it injures or kills them. Animals are the most scared things on earth, even when they try to look not scared. They have no ability to collect data. Anything will cause them concern from a small plastic sack to the light shining differently. Since they have no ability to collect data, they cannot identify or analyze anything. They act totally out of habits. Animals do not know how to change habits, so their habits rarely change. Only survival forces them to change.
Humans also form habits the same way but we can choose to change habits. The question is how? By using methods that do not allow for error, we can change any habit we decide to. We can change the habit making errors to one of not making errors. But it must be done systematically, not by some mysterious force called ‘confidence’ or other words.
I appreciate your comments because it makes me defend what I have said. If I could not logically defend and prove it with 100 percent accuracy, then the theory would be flawed.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
Moderator: ccboard_admin
|
New videos for August!
|
|
5689 Members
6 Forums
30578 Topics
317045 Posts
Max Online: 66 @ 04/02/08 07:32 PM
|
|
|
